Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
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Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by rednwhite Sat 19 Nov 2011, 14:16
Hey everyone, basically, this is kinda a place where we can voice our opinions on what you need help with, and just to talk and compare. This is also something Garry suggested. I'll start:
I have a hard time getting in rhythm with that bass, and it feels like I can't hear it. Second, everything about my shuffle seems clunky, and my running man can't match the speed of any song, so it gets me down
Any tips or things you guys have learnt?
I have a hard time getting in rhythm with that bass, and it feels like I can't hear it. Second, everything about my shuffle seems clunky, and my running man can't match the speed of any song, so it gets me down
Any tips or things you guys have learnt?
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by Garry Sat 19 Nov 2011, 15:03
We are all born with a natural rhythm that helps us breathe, pump blood and walk upright. It varies depending on the fatigue factor and gives you a chance to catch your breath.
But since the industrial age starting around 200+ years ago, when personal fob watches and domestic clocks became common, we've become used to machine time. It is strict and unrelenting.
In european/western based music, musicians learn this strict time from mechanical Metronomes. You literally have to drum the mechanical timing into your dna through repetition until your inner body clock can run on both natural and machine time.
Dance music since drum machines in the 1970's has completely changed our timing aesthetics. We are so used to computer accurate time in music we forget, we are but mere mortals in the face of the superior machines, we dance to their beat haha.
I spent about 2 hours a day for 5 years going through the practice ritual to be absolutely accurate with machine time so I could play live keyboards with a drum machine. Even being able to count the beats in silence and come in cold with a big chord, totally unforgiving when you're live on stage and it's very very loud hehe...
How do others cope with timing ?
But since the industrial age starting around 200+ years ago, when personal fob watches and domestic clocks became common, we've become used to machine time. It is strict and unrelenting.
In european/western based music, musicians learn this strict time from mechanical Metronomes. You literally have to drum the mechanical timing into your dna through repetition until your inner body clock can run on both natural and machine time.
Dance music since drum machines in the 1970's has completely changed our timing aesthetics. We are so used to computer accurate time in music we forget, we are but mere mortals in the face of the superior machines, we dance to their beat haha.
I spent about 2 hours a day for 5 years going through the practice ritual to be absolutely accurate with machine time so I could play live keyboards with a drum machine. Even being able to count the beats in silence and come in cold with a big chord, totally unforgiving when you're live on stage and it's very very loud hehe...
How do others cope with timing ?
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by rednwhite Sat 19 Nov 2011, 15:40
I play the guitar so I have a large amount of experience with timing so to speak, haha. But like with mikki, this shuffler, he inspired me, and hes so slick making everything seem as simple as breathing... yet it feels impossible, they all do, and I think it drives me a little insane, but its worth a watch 
They all are so slick...
They all are so slick...
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by rednwhite Sat 19 Nov 2011, 16:06
But all of them, their running man seems so smooth and slow, which is odd cause I never feel like my running man is fast enough, but it doesn't look "professional" so to speak haha.
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by Garry Sun 20 Nov 2011, 05:20
If you've had a lot of sporting, soccer or gym experience before you start shuffling, the footwork will come naturally. If, you've had more experience say playing guitar, your hands will be the more sophisticated movement area. Which means you need to focus more rudementary practice on your feet, just to lock in your brain to concentrate on your feet.
It's like speaking another language, you need to think in that langauge to communicate effectively, rather than translating everything into and out of languages.
So try some exercises with music, even sitting down, and get your feet tapping in time with the music, without using your hands. Purposely do nothing with your hands for a while so the movement is strictly your feet, to isolate those muscle groups in your brain for dance.
more about this sort of thing in the Dance Language thread
https://mso1.forumotion.com/t1288-dance-language
It's like speaking another language, you need to think in that langauge to communicate effectively, rather than translating everything into and out of languages.
So try some exercises with music, even sitting down, and get your feet tapping in time with the music, without using your hands. Purposely do nothing with your hands for a while so the movement is strictly your feet, to isolate those muscle groups in your brain for dance.
more about this sort of thing in the Dance Language thread
https://mso1.forumotion.com/t1288-dance-language
Last edited by Garry on Sun 20 Nov 2011, 21:14; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by eastcoastshuffler Sun 20 Nov 2011, 06:04
Okay a lot of the slick running man look is due to the phats that hide your feet. I used to feel and look clunky on my running man. The trick I think is to keep your hops very short and very low, so you can do them faster. Also, when you do your second hop, keep your heel close to the ground to give the "floating" look (I've been working on this)
Tips for "feeling" the bass...well I've played piano for 8 years, trumpet for 2 years, trombone for 2 years and saxophone for 3 years so the beat gets drilled into you. But for hardstyle and trance, it is quite easy to dance to. This is due to the "4 on the Floor" beat- four bass thumps every measure. Almost every hardstyle has this as a foundation.
To help when you dance, alter your music device to boost the bass level eqs so you can hear it better.
Hope this helps
Tips for "feeling" the bass...well I've played piano for 8 years, trumpet for 2 years, trombone for 2 years and saxophone for 3 years so the beat gets drilled into you. But for hardstyle and trance, it is quite easy to dance to. This is due to the "4 on the Floor" beat- four bass thumps every measure. Almost every hardstyle has this as a foundation.
To help when you dance, alter your music device to boost the bass level eqs so you can hear it better.
Hope this helps
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by rednwhite Sun 20 Nov 2011, 06:22
Thanks guys How long a day should I practice my running man a day, 1 or 2 hours?
How long a day should I practice my running man a day, 1 or 2 hours?
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by eastcoastshuffler Sun 20 Nov 2011, 07:59
Lol practice whenever you want! Dancing isn't supposed to be a chore. If you get ten minutes there five minutes there, it all helps. If you every feel like dancing, just put on a beat and move
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by Garry Sun 20 Nov 2011, 08:50
Yeah you're right with the practice, just keep it fun.
You have to account for muscle fatigue too. If you are getting sore you need to stop and let the muscles recover before doing more. You can do a lot of long term damage by pushing too hard.
That recovery time could be a few hours. So you can spread your practice over the whole day. A bit in the morning a bit during the day sort of thing, when you get the time and a bit of space. It's not like an aerobic exercise, you won't need to burn up a certain amount of energy before seeing benefits. Just going through steps slowly can help with the muscle memory retention.
It's a balance because you need to push a bit, but no so much that you hate the thought of it. Like when you study music and have to learn set pieces for an exam. It can be the moment you see the piano or trumpet etc, your stomach turns into knots from the stress. Not a good thing.
You have to account for muscle fatigue too. If you are getting sore you need to stop and let the muscles recover before doing more. You can do a lot of long term damage by pushing too hard.
That recovery time could be a few hours. So you can spread your practice over the whole day. A bit in the morning a bit during the day sort of thing, when you get the time and a bit of space. It's not like an aerobic exercise, you won't need to burn up a certain amount of energy before seeing benefits. Just going through steps slowly can help with the muscle memory retention.
It's a balance because you need to push a bit, but no so much that you hate the thought of it. Like when you study music and have to learn set pieces for an exam. It can be the moment you see the piano or trumpet etc, your stomach turns into knots from the stress. Not a good thing.
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by Garry Sun 20 Nov 2011, 09:19
eastcoastshuffler wrote:Okay a lot of the slick running man look is due to the phats that hide your feet.
Yep, that's why they're baggy and heavy, you use the weight of the material to hide awkward bits and it extends your throw of your leg with the wide cuff. So you look like you're moving further and faster than you really are. You get a sort of whiplash effect at certain speeds with your pants flapping around. especially with reflectors, their weight and eye catching elements increase the perception of movement.
It's part of the theatre performance techniques you learn for live performance. You need to project yourself to a large crowd, so your movements are enhanced by costume make-up and lighting to make you look more believible, it's a heightened reality and the has a pro look because of those things or what we usually call production values, in this case it's a combination of camera angle, costume and lighting which enhance the vid. Even if he didn't realise, these are all elements of Shuffling which he's correctly picked up on as well as the steps.
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by hardcore_shuffler Sun 20 Nov 2011, 11:33
rednwhite wrote:I play the guitar so I have a large amount of experience with timing so to speak, haha. But like with mikki, this shuffler, he inspired me, and hes so slick making everything seem as simple as breathing... yet it feels impossible, they all do, and I think it drives me a little insane, but its worth a watch
the shuffler in this videos name is Francis,he's an old freind of mine actually,NO lie,he actually quit shuffling,but wants to show up for the global shuffle meet charity event,he's a great person all around:)i used to shuffle with him before i quit shuffling then got back in..we used to be the goth kids in school dancing around doing industrial before we descovered Hardstyle Republic on MTV and Hard Kid(same group)at time square on the news bacl in...oh say...2003 i think it was:D anyways,wanna chance to meet your idol?
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by hardcore_shuffler Sun 20 Nov 2011, 11:37
he also MIGHT just shuffle at the meet,i TRIED to convince him,but he said he's rusty,but i dont beleive him,he always says that.
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by eastcoastshuffler Sun 20 Nov 2011, 13:48
hardcore_shuffler wrote:he also MIGHT just shuffle at the meet,i TRIED to convince him,but he said he's rusty,but i dont beleive him,he always says that.
Francis rusty...wait what? Lol
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by rednwhite Sun 20 Nov 2011, 14:51
Oh lord, a chance to meet Francis is something I could never pass on, but I have to I want to come but there are 3 factors.
1. I'm in calgary
2. No moola for plane ticket
3. School
Otherwise I'd be sooo in Anyways thanks for the invite, I'm just happy we got it set up.
I want to come but there are 3 factors.1. I'm in calgary
2. No moola for plane ticket
3. School
Otherwise I'd be sooo in
Anyways thanks for the invite, I'm just happy we got it set up.
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by rednwhite Sun 20 Nov 2011, 15:08
And Garry, I have a question, unless its a trade secret which I would guess 
, but what cut are phats? Is there a specific way in which they're made, or is it like I take jeans and do some sewing?
, but what cut are phats? Is there a specific way in which they're made, or is it like I take jeans and do some sewing?
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by Garry Sun 20 Nov 2011, 21:08
Generally, you have a max 80cms cuff (bottom of pants) depends on your height.
The flare starts just above the knee and goes down to the cuff. The top part are like any other pants, shorts or jeans. Just whatever is comfortable.
These are the original cut of phats, they're sailors bell bottom pants. The buttons are what were used before zippers were invented. The waist can be at the high waist level like these or just normal hip height
They are loose fitting work pants basically, tough comfortable and hardwearing. The big cuff size made it easy to roll up the pants to the knee so they didn't get wet on deck or wading to shore etc.
The flare starts just above the knee and goes down to the cuff. The top part are like any other pants, shorts or jeans. Just whatever is comfortable.
These are the original cut of phats, they're sailors bell bottom pants. The buttons are what were used before zippers were invented. The waist can be at the high waist level like these or just normal hip height
They are loose fitting work pants basically, tough comfortable and hardwearing. The big cuff size made it easy to roll up the pants to the knee so they didn't get wet on deck or wading to shore etc.
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by eastcoastshuffler Mon 21 Nov 2011, 02:05
I've always wondered why the hanging straps? Just aesthetics I guess?
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by Jinx346 Mon 21 Nov 2011, 05:56
mostly asthetics. they are actually suspenders. some dont work like suspenders, i made a pair that do.
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by Garry Mon 21 Nov 2011, 10:34
Yeah the suspenders came from the overalls/coveralls industrial style which was popular in the oldskool. They became more like a hiphop style in the 2000's, with key chains and bling hanging from your waist or pockets.
But they're great to use, especially when you have fairly heavy phats. Your shoulders take all the weight and it feels really comfortable without a tight belt or elastic around your waist when you're shuffling.
You can wear an open shirt or jacket over the suspenders, but don't wear a shirt with a collar like a workshirt under the suspenders unless you're a farmer.
But they're great to use, especially when you have fairly heavy phats. Your shoulders take all the weight and it feels really comfortable without a tight belt or elastic around your waist when you're shuffling.
You can wear an open shirt or jacket over the suspenders, but don't wear a shirt with a collar like a workshirt under the suspenders unless you're a farmer.
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by rednwhite Mon 21 Nov 2011, 10:40
I really want phats, but the only issue is price
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by ModernHippo Mon 21 Nov 2011, 11:32
wait till your b-day or christmas
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by rednwhite Mon 21 Nov 2011, 11:40
Yeah I am gonna do that. I found a great site for cheap. Nice phats as well.
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by Jinx346 Mon 21 Nov 2011, 12:10
make your own if you have some skill with a sowing machine. i do not.
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by hardcore_shuffler Mon 21 Nov 2011, 13:08
i made my first everything,phats,jacket,team,and i suck at sewing,it's all a worthy experience tough man:)
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Re: Shuffling Problems, anyone got some?
by rednwhite Mon 21 Nov 2011, 13:12
I don't have a sewing machine
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